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User talk:Zephyr135/Archive 2017
How exactly does say, frost damage work? Frostblade might have Godly Slash, so it does extra damage against monsters weak to slash (useless against bosses), and gets a damage boost if the CA modifier is also slash. But then I don't know how frost damage fits into this. It seems like another 'element', between pierce, slash, bludgeon, there is also stuff like freeze. Is freeze damage just tacked on top of normal damage? The effect for Frostblade says Remnant bonus +30%. Some take this to mean 30% extra dmg against Conqueror for story reasons. But as far as I can tell it doesn't apply to him. Dark wizzie (talk) 23:37, June 11, 2017 (UTC) : Pretty much. Having Frost seems to mean that it has a chance of freezing the enemy, while also being able to hit any Frost weaknesses the enemy might have. Should also help with boosting damage to any Frost type attacks, like Permafrost. : The Conqueror is considered a "?" type, so the Remnant bonus doesn't apply to him. I'm actually not too sure if the damage bonus effects vs. monster class/family are even working properly. Zephyr (talk) 16:59, June 12, 2017 (UTC) I have done some testing with White Conqueror after he uses Photon Field. Snowfall, Topspin, Dragon's Roar, Temblor always hit. Final Toll, Crush, Retribution do not always hit. Dark wizzie (talk) 07:50, August 19, 2017 (UTC) : Lines up with what I've seen on PC. Still not motivated enough to find out if that's also the case on the X360. Zephyr (talk) 01:55, September 1, 2017 (UTC) The dialogue for The Fated One has Yerva saying 'You can find me in Virtus Parish in Athlum. My fellow mercenaries and I will be there if you need anything.' Despite this it doesn't seem like he is available for hire there (or even present in that area). Can you confirm? Dark wizzie (talk) 21:22, August 31, 2017 (UTC) : That has always been the case. Not sure why the dialogue says that. Maybe it was planned and didn't have enough time to actually implement those units? Zephyr (talk) 01:55, September 1, 2017 (UTC) So the highest damage CA/MA/IA against a single unit boss would be Peerless Acala's Wrath V with DW Divine Tomahawks & Black Belts x2. Do you know what would be the highest damaging WA/UA would be? Do you know what the lowest possible BR to clear White Conqueror or Lost is? I only really recognize two spots to train for this purpose: The landworms, and Bai Ze. The BR scaling is tougher on Xbox, so would you say overall that Xbox is harder than PC, except maybe on Hard Mode if the player is starting from scratch? Have you managed to get crit hit auto % in TLR Resource Editor to function correctly? I put it to 100% but I still see auto failing sometimes. Other stat changes seem to work fine. As an example, I set the crit hit auto % to 100% on Runesword, then bought Runesword for my entire party, but missed a few auto triggers. Dark wizzie (talk) 05:43, September 30, 2017 (UTC) : Highest damage WA is likely Royal Rage. Highest damage UA is probably Hundred Flowers. This is assuming that all hits land on the target. : I don't know what the lowest BR would be, but it should be less than 30. Would be training against the Observers. : I haven't tried fiddling around with that using TLRRE. I've poked at it using TLR_EE, but it doesn't seem to stick very well. It's possible that it's not writing to memory or file properly. The other thing is battle morale affecting the success chance. Zephyr (talk) 15:58, September 30, 2017 (UTC) To check if TLR Resource Editor did anything for attack auto %, I adjusted it to 0% for Runeblade and had my union spam attack. Union and battlefield morale was set to max. At 0% it was obvious the effect held. Set to 100% I got 8 misses in 210 attempts. Set to 80% I got 9 misses in 48 tries. TLR_MG item spawning is fine because it has the new attack auto % stats. For Royal Rage, I'm assuming the way to do that would be: Legendary Lancer, Parrying Naginata +9, x1 Monocle of Guiding? The spear being godly slash stacks with the modifier of Royal Rage. Parrying Naginata is 21 attack higher than Optimal Naginata when both at are +9. According to the wiki the bonus of Optimal Naginata is Pierce Attack +5, but the game data says Slash Attack +5 (which stacks with weapon and art being used). I'm going to assume that is a typo in the wiki for now. If so, then I have to make sure Slash Attack +5 does not outweigh the 21 attack disadvantage. I find Royal Rage to be an interesting choice, because Rush cannot equip a huge spear, meaning that setup doesn't get x2 Monocle of Guiding. Why wouldn't something like Hawkarang beat Royal Rage due to this? As for lowest BR, I would have guessed that for an absolutely lowest BR attempt Observers would raise BR too much even with max deaths because their BR is so high. I guess not? It's not so clear cut then... When and how to get started enough to move to an easy training spot (Landworms) or to Bai Ze, and when to hire units... Even getting drops for equipment upgrades is tough with 100% drop rate. I know half of the xp is granted for an art being queued up, so the attack missing the enemy either grants half or full xp. In that case theoretically all fights can be drawn out to 30 turns (of course, arts that cannot miss have to be ignored). Dark wizzie (talk) 09:18, October 1, 2017 (UTC) : I was assuming based purely on weapon stats + WA attack power. And yes, it was a typo. The Slash Attack +5 won't do too much since the Optimal Naginata's modifier is only Mighty Slash (50%) compared to the others' Godly Slash (100%). That difference is already enough to outweigh the effect. Decided to poke at it for a bit, and it looks like even with 2 Monocle of Guidings on the Hawkarang user, the Royal Rage unit still deals more damage with only 1 Monocle of Guiding. Had a feeling that was the case based on another player's party setup for that one-turn kill. As an aside... my god LasRem moves like molasses compared to all insane running around I've done in Ys VIII for the last 4 months and the random poking with Sen no Kiseki III... : From an Observer, it's something like 14~16 BR EXP after modifying for the lowest EXP multiplier. If you're careful enough, it should be possible to get Zolean to Cachexia and a bit before hitting the Fallen, and at lower than BR15. Executing the art gives the second half of the EXP; doesn't matter if it misses. With normal attacks, the hit landing does actually matter, but the EXP isn't evenly split and only really affects weapon EXP (selection gets the majority of it). Zephyr (talk) 18:22, October 1, 2017 (UTC) Before I seriously start testing I have some more questions. The first is about accessories on non-Rush leaders. I read this: 'The most recent focus is what will determine their accessories and what the main slot will be upgraded to. The sub slot will be then shifted to the old focus.' Baulson's main slot and secondary slot for balanced is bracelet and amulet respectively. If Baulson is first balanced (he gets bracelet) and then combat (he gets Monocle of Guiding), does that mean his main slow is now Monocle of Guiding and his bracelet gets pushed down to secondary slot? Or does it change into an amulet? Should I test with battlefield and union morale at max? It seems an attack can either do normal damage, much less damage, or double damage (critical). The second seems to almost never happen with max union and battlefield morale. I'm worried about a single line/hit in Royal Rage being critical while the rest of the attack isn't critical. Is that a thing? Dark wizzie (talk) 06:12, October 5, 2017 (UTC) : Ah. That thing. That was from the X360 guide which I was roughly translating. It's a little bit wonky there, so not everything applies to the PC version. Also, the main slot/sub slot thing is for their weapons, assuming that they have a main and offhand combination. Both accessories are shifted to the new focus as soon as you choose it. Both weapon/shield slots are shifted on the PC. The guide itself has a few errors in there, so even if I did translate it correctly, the info can still be wrong. : I look at everything with maxed or minimum morale since it's a lot easier to control/lock into place. Not the best method, but sufficient to get a handle of what outcomes to expect. As for multi-hit attacks, the game seems to roll if it's going to be a critical hit before rolling for each hit. So Royal Rage will be considered "critical" for all hits even if most of them miss. And then you see the extra hits being calculated from the total damage of all hits landing. Zephyr (talk) 16:43, October 5, 2017 (UTC) I'm a little confused then. If I take Baulson at BR 1 (Earring, empty), change BR to 9, he will ask for combat focus before changing his accessories. If set to balance it will become earring and charm the next time he asks for a new accessory. If I then set br to 99 to force the second refocus and set it to combat, he will end the game with belt and charm, and never get an earring. If instead I let him get a wristlet with his charm after BR 9 before BR 38, picking combat afterwards has no effect on his accessories. It seems to me that Baulson can either have belt and earring or belt and amulet (ignoring mystic focus and combinations without a belt). Dark wizzie (talk) 08:37, October 6, 2017 (UTC) I've tested Baulson with x1 Monocle of Guiding, Hurricane III, 255 all stats, +9 weapon strengthening, Legendary Lancer. Full battlefield and union morale against White Conqueror. Parrying Naginata got average of 219313 damage while Optimal Naginata got 219644. Total and partial misses were not counted in the average. I did 50 valid samples for each of the two weapons. I tried some other accessories like Kobold's Kindness but it wasn't as good (as expected). The accuracy of Royal Rage out of the 147 attempts (109 of which were dead on) is 74%/7%/19% for hit/partial miss/total miss. More testing to come... Dark wizzie (talk) 11:31, October 6, 2017 (UTC) : Were you letting him clone in the accessories? Or letting him actually request them while taking into account Equip Ranks? Not disputing, but it's just a little unclear at the moment. : I used Melee Stance to have a little more control over what effects were active, against Bai Ze. Should probably swap the enemy to something with higher resists. Might be why there's a discrepancy between our tests. The Parrying Naginata was hitting for more than the Optimal Nagainata with my tests. Was looking more for lowest and highest damage rolls. Didn't care too much about the average. The test unit also had maxed TH and Spear levels. Not entirely sure if that also influences damage (wouldn't be too surprised if it did), but that's also another variable I wanted out of there. Zephyr (talk) 16:32, October 6, 2017 (UTC) I let him just request accessories, so that's probably it. Although, it doesn't really matter now. If bracelet never goes into the second accessory slot then there's nothing in the second slot that will boost damage. As for the two handed/etc levels, those are set to 32 with trainer. I see what you mean by logging just the peak values. For example if I really averaged it out realistically I'd be including the misses, and that would significantly drag down the average damage of Royal Rage. In this case it's probably best to find the highest peak WA dmg, and the highest average damage between WAs. The reason why I added Hurricane III is because I was thinking about the highest WA setups with the best class/accessory/formation etc. At first I read what you wrote as 'I should swap to an enemy with higher resist', but now I think you mean 'You should swap to an enemy with higher resist'. In my opinion, these tests are more useful when tested against a strong enemy, so I would test against Lost or White Conqueror. Although according to TLR Resource Editor, White Conqueror has much higher resists than even Lost! I just assumed all the bosses which "resists" everything would resist by some generic amount and it's the same for every boss. Guess not. Finally, on peak dmg with the two Naginatas: I was surprised to find they were identical: 225165. What's more, the Parrying Naginata had that exact damage 3 times out of the 50 successful times it was landed, and the Optimal Naginata had that exact damage 2 times out of the 50 times it landed. I think that is a pretty big coincidence and my explanation would be that (and I forgot about this during testing) that Hurricane III buffed the atk of the leader by 35% in Hurricane III, and I had Baulson as leader. This means both the Optimal and Parrying Naginata were at effectively 255 attack. But introduces some weirdness as well: If both were same attack wouldn't the Optimal Naginata have an advantage...? Minimum damage, Optimal Naginata is 600 points higher. So 600 higher minimum, 300 higher average, identical maximums. Margin of error is still probably too big at this point. More and more it seems there can't be a simple and single 'highest dmg WA' title. Dark wizzie (talk) 17:32, October 6, 2017 (UTC) : The Bracelet should never end up in second slot since it's reserved for AP+/PhysRes+/MysRes+, unless it's a mystic unit since they shove the HP+ accessory into the second slot. : I'll have to go check, but I'm pretty sure that Hawkarang and a few others are tied with Royal Rage for attack power. Problem is the lower stats and its modifier not having any synergy with the WA. Sunder is probably another good one to look at since it's rated "S". It'll be difficult to get a good user out of that one though, especially if you're looking for a Swashbuckler. I think only Amos makes the most out of it, and that requires getting him out of a mystic class. The best ones are arguably the WAs that match up with their weapon's modifiers. Then matching them with users that can further boost damage. So yeah, I think Hawkarang and Royal Rage are probably the safest bets, while Sunder could be at the top if you're willing to put in the work and hope that it doesn't miss. : Optimal Naginata has 50% Slash while Parrying Naginata has 100% Slash. Not entirely sure how the Slash Attack +5 (30%) effect factors in and possibly where in the equation. If the Optimal Naginata were a Godly Slash weapon, then sure, it would more than likely win out. Zephyr (talk) 18:24, October 6, 2017 (UTC)